Agreeing to Disagree

By Bob and Roxanne Duniway

When Kathleen and John first met in January of 2000 at a Baltimore blues club, they fell into hours of debate before eventually falling in love. They had many differences, yet they both appreciated the other for being willing to defend their views while listening respectfully. When John had to leave the club, he asked for Kathleen’s number. Her sister grabbed the napkin Kathleen had written it on and exclaimed, “Oh, wow! She actually gave you her real phone number!”

They told us that they wanted to pursue a relationship together because neither of them wanted one. For the next two weeks they talked on the phone for hours. Because they lived roughly two hours apart, it was two weeks before they met for a date. They continued to talk — and debate — on the phone or by email, with dates when they could manage them.

They were leery of relationships for a couple of reasons. One was that they had both seen their parents go through divorces and multiple relationships. Another was that they wanted to be able to control the relationship. They found it unique being with someone who stood up to them. Both came from large families — John had four older sisters, and Kathleen had four older brothers and a sister — so they had plenty of practice sticking up for themselves. His sisters helped John feel comfortable relating to women as friends and equals, and most of his close friends were women.

John and Kathleen began dating exclusively four months after meeting. Arguing continued to be respectful and even fun; they had popcorn on election nights waiting to see who would be disappointed with the results. Despite continuing to live two hours apart, they attended family gatherings together, and even became dog parents to a miniature dachshund. They were serious, but agreed they didn’t want to get married.

After a few years, Kathleen found she wanted a more committed relationship, so she felt she needed to break up with John. John wasn’t having it. He kept reaching out, and after a few months they got back together. During those few months, his view on commitment had changed due to several couples at his church who were informally coaching him. One of his church friends advised him, “Don’t marry the one you want to live with. Marry the one you can’t live without.” Apparently, that was Kathleen.

They had a spectacular wedding aboard a paddle wheeler on April 1st, 2005. They set the wedding on April Fools’ Day because none of their friends would believe they were actually getting married, since they disagreed so much. Over time, they found that their arguments started feeling less fun as they became more emotionally invested in wanting their partner to change. They started feeling incredulous about each other’s opinions. Their miniature dachshund, Solomon, developed the habit of putting his paws on the shoulders of the one he thought was losing the argument, like a comforting hug.

Through the years John has transitioned through several different career fields while Kathleen has maintained her career in social work, teaching at a university and counseling. They have started their road to retirement, moving from a large home near DC into a town home in Maryland, then onto their 49-foot trawler.

In 2010 they joined CCC, which helped them develop tools for staying connected through their arguments. They have learned what works for their couple to regain emotional composure quickly after a breakdown. They have made a conscious effort to be more curious and less judgmental. They will often share articles or other media with each other and ask each other what they, from their different point of view, think about it.

They have a rule while listening: don’t interject thoughtlessly. They have learned that they don’t have to agree with a point of view in order to respect it, and that understanding does not equal agreeing. They say one of the benefits of being married to someone with a different perspective is that it becomes difficult to “other” people with a similar viewpoint. They have each defended the other’s point of view to people who were denigrating it.

One thing they have experienced in couples coaching is that, because they are authentic and direct, coaches can sometimes find their disagreements daunting. They reassure their coaches that they are fine and encourage them to use the Member Guidebook techniques and distinctions to stay in the coaching role and out of the argument. Through coaching they have reached the point where arguing is more respectful, but not quite fun again — yet.

Soon Kathleen and John will downsize again, moving to a 38-foot Trawler on which they will travel the Great American Loop, a continuous waterway that recreational mariners can travel that includes part of the Atlantic, Gulf Intracoastal Waterways, the Great Lakes, Canadian Heritage Canals, and the inland rivers of America’s heartland.

They prefer being close — boat close — as long as they still make space to disagree.

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Bob and Roxanne Duniway are in the Seattle Circle.

*Last name isn’t used per the couple’s request.